Was it man who conquered the moon or did the moon conquer man? We asked astrophysicist Patrizia Caraveo. Research director of the National Institute of Astrophysics and professor of Introduction to Astronomy at the Physics Department of the University of Pavia, you collaborate on the NASA Swift, NASA Fermi and Italian Agile missions, all in orbit. Guest of Honor of the month, she revealed her career and answered our curiosities.
Professor, in 2009 she was awarded the National President of the Republic Award. In 2014, Women in Aerospace Europe awarded her the Outstanding Achievement Award and Thomson Reuters included her in the list of Highly Cited Researchers, as well as receiving the title of Commander of the Order of Merit of the Italian Republic. What does it represent for a scientist to have received such prestigious awards?
Seeing your work recognized is always a great satisfaction. For me these awards also represented an opportunity to meet important personalities: in 2009 it was the then President Napolitano who personally awarded me the plaque, on that occasion I got to know him and tell him how much scientists appreciated his continued support for research. I would very much like the same thing to happen with President Mattarella, who awarded me the prestigious title of Commendatore, but whom I have not yet had the opportunity to meet.
Even the inclusion of my name in the list of Highly Cited Researchers is a source of satisfaction for me. One becomes such only if an algorithm calculates that the signed publications are among the most cited in the works of others. I contributed to the preparation of catalogs of sources in the gamma sky which, in fact, are used a lot, and this made me climb the positions. To achieve these results it takes a lot of work, a lot of passion and a good bit of luck!
How did your passion for physics come about?
My passion for Physics was born during high school. Initially an unbridled interest in Archeology led me to think of a course of university studies in history. Then came the meeting with a physics professor who answered my questions about the pendulum or the inclined plane "it's nature, my dear". This answer wasn't enough for me, I wanted to understand more: there had to be an explanation for these phenomena. So it was that I became passionate about Physics and put Archeology in the background.
Was it you who chose astrophysics or astrophysics that conquered it?
Neither one nor the other, in the sense that I "arrived" in Astrophysics after a personal journey.
During the University I chose to follow, out of sheer curiosity, a course in Cosmic Physics. There I met an extraordinary professor who fascinated me with the subject. It was the same professor who introduced me to a colleague with whom I wrote a thesis on gamma-ray astronomy. From that moment on I switched to astrophysics.
It is currently involved in the European Integral mission, the NASA Swift mission, the Italian Agile mission and the NASA Fermi mission... all in orbit and fully operational. What are the "dreams" that these missions wish to achieve?
These missions have been in orbit since the early XNUMXs so scientific dreams and goals have evolved over time as our understanding of astrophysics has increased. For example, a satellite born to study gamma sources in great detail has now become a key player in the search for counterparts of gravitational waves. This is what Agile does, as well as Integral, which is one of the first to respond to gravitational wave alerts. Swift too is focused on finding some electromagnetic emission from events that generate gravitational waves and, more generally, from all transient phenomena that turn on and off in the sky. When these satellites left, gravitational waves were still in the world of ideas, dreams, now they are a reality. Satellites have shown the ability to adapt to new astrophysical problems. This is their strong point: they have not become fossilized in their original mission, they have "grown" together with Astrophysics. For this reason they are considered fundamental resources and space agencies continue to finance their orbital life. They are all experiencing a second youth!
In your being a scientist, is everything always explicable?
If it is not, one is confronted with one's own ignorance and must study to find an explanation.
Jim Lovell looked out the window and noticed the gas that was leaking from the spaceship that was supposed to take him to the Moon: at that moment he understood that for Apollo 13 there would be no moon landing and that the goal of the mission was now to bring his three astronauts alive on Earth. The Apollo 13 failure became one of the most important media events of the second half of the twentieth century and its incredible story is the subject of books, documentaries and films. In your opinion, what does the extraordinary failure of Apollo 13 teach us?
This event went down in history as the most successful fiasco ever, yet it taught NASA and the general public a great deal. In fact, American televisions no longer wanted to broadcast live broadcasts from the capsule en route to the Moon, which instead had happened with Apollo 8, Apollo 10, Apollo 11 and Apollo 12, because they considered the event "normal".
With Apollo 13 it was understood that what was taken for granted, because fortunately everything had gone smoothly with the previous missions, was not at all.
Going to the moon is difficult and the astronauts who accept to take this risk are extraordinarily courageous and prepared people, psychologically stable, capable of not panicking even in the most difficult moments. I personally dealt with this case in a book dedicated to the lunar adventure. The great success of Apollo 13 was to show how the control room in Houston was able to deal with the unexpected and a near tragedy, helping the astronauts to get out of it.
Can you tell us an anecdote from your life that still makes you smile today?
In 2003, as first author, I had written an article on a very interesting topic, so much so that it would be published in one of the major scientific journals, Science. From the magazine they asked us for an image for the cover, we provided them with an artistic photo of the reflections of the gold mirror of the XMM-Newton instrument which had obtained the data described in the article. The caption of the cover photo obviously mentioned our article. Well, some time later I had a letter delivered to me saying that I had been named man of the year. I still keep this letter which makes me smile a lot.
What do you think are the most important qualities to be successful in today's world of work?
They are definitely preparation and determination. Both have a fundamental value: obviously we must be prepared but we must not let anyone tell us that this or that job is not for us, especially as regards women. These rumours, which are based only on prejudices, must not be heeded.
The presence of women in the scientific fields of STEM subjects is still around 20%. The Nobel Prize sees the presence of women in a very low percentage. Despite the promotional actions at an international level, let's think for example of the World Day of Women and Girls in Science, this index is struggling to rise. What do you think it would take to bring the numerical ratio into balance?
In this case the fundamental problem is a mix of history and prejudices. By dint of hammering the nail with the Nobel Prize Award Committee, something changed in 2020: among the winners we find Andrea Ghez, an astronomer, for physics and Jennifer Doudna together with Emmanuelle Charpentier for chemistry. It has never happened to see so many women receive the Nobel.
A poet was also nominated for literature, but women were already more present in this field. There's still a lot to do but it's a good start.
The Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope will be the first space instrument dedicated to a woman, Nancy Roman, also known as the "mother" of Hubble as she managed to convince NASA and the US Congress to finance the space telescope. Why is it so important to treasure the example of great women who have managed to make their dreams come true by fighting against the stereotypes of their time?
Because it's always important to celebrate great achievements. NASA's decision to dedicate the new space telescope to Nancy Roman, for example, took place after the decision to dedicate a large new telescope under construction to Vera Rubin and following the choice of the European Space Agency to dedicate the Rover that , in a couple of years, will be walking on Mars. These are women who have fought against stereotypes, with stories behind them that are not always happy. Despite having found themselves in an area considered "masculine" they managed to emerge. This is always a positive message.
Is it possible to know how to change your mind in research?
Of course and sometimes it is necessary. When you undertake a research it can happen that, investigating a particular aspect, you discover that you are completely wrong. In these cases, changing your mind is necessary and beneficial.
In the book "Conquered by the Moon" you retrace the history of the attraction that our satellite has always exerted on people… Was it man who conquered the Moon or was it the Moon that conquered man?
Definitely, we are conquered by the Moon! The great interest, as well as the emotion we feel when looking at it, is proof of how much it is present in the collective imagination. To me the Moon conveys calm, calmness... it's wonderful to think that we've gotten there. We know it was a political challenge (where science had a marginal role), but that doesn't change the transport that this satellite arouses in us.
All the astronauts who have been to the moon have said that we went there to discover the earth. In fact, they are the people who have been able to observe our planet from the outside. What they saw was a beautiful blue sunlit marble, with bright oceans and clouds, all against a pitch black background. A very emotional image.
In the book "We are the Martians" we go from the Big Bang to the formation of galaxies, stars, heavy elements and planets, including the Earth. Then there is a new and fascinating part, relating to alien planets and "contact" astronomy. A quarter of a century has passed since the discovery of the first exoplanet, today we know thousands of them and many are similar to Earth. In your opinion, how "invaded" are we? And how much are we “invaders?
We are absolutely not invaded, I personally don't believe any of the theories about UFOs or ancient astronauts who would have visited us in the past. Instead, we are the ones who are invading the solar system, in the sense that we are leaving tons of debris on the Moon, Venus, Mars, just as we have sent probes into the atmosphere of Jupiter and Saturn. If there is anyone who can be considered an “invader” it is the human species!
She is very attentive to the issue of sky pollution. Indeed, this is polluted not only by carbon dioxide emissions but also by larger waste such as satellites and space debris. What are the risks for science and for our future? What could be done to remedy the current situation?
Light pollution is due, on the one hand, to the lighting of our cities. We tend to illuminate outdoor spaces too much and badly, in doing so we turn off the celestial vault. Consider that 2 billion out of 7 people find it difficult to observe something beyond the Moon and the planets. This is a cultural problem.
On the other hand we have a problem of light pollution caused by satellites which, although recent, requires worldwide attention. Let me explain. Some large entrepreneurs have decided to invest in a huge satellite infrastructure that covers the Earth like a spider's web, this to provide fast Internet in all parts of the world. Although it is a very useful thing from a social point of view, the characteristics of satellites create many problems, as they reflect a lot of sunlight. In fact, they are the size of a kitchen table, are made of metal and have a solar panel almost five times the size of the satellite. What happens is that when the sun sets on the Earth these continue to be illuminated by it, making it difficult not only to observe with the naked eye but also that of experts, since when the satellite crosses the field of view of a telescope, it leaves a brilliant swipe that makes the collected data unusable.
Today this happens on average every 2, 3 days; if the satellite population were to balloon out of proportion in order to build the infrastructure, about 30% of the images would have to be thrown away.
To avoid this, astronomers are working with engineers to find a solution.
Today we often talk about the Space Economy, the value chain that starting from the research, development and creation of enabling space infrastructures reaches the generation of innovative "enabled" products and services, such as telecommunications, navigation and positioning services, environmental monitoring weather forecast, etc. Why does it represent one of the most promising development trajectories of the world economy in the coming decades?
Because the Space Economy encompasses many branches of Earth observation. Earlier we talked about the global Internet, but there is also extremely precise GPS, necessary for autonomous driving of cars, as well as the possibility of optimizing the use of water in extensive agriculture and minimizing the use of pesticides. Let's not forget the possibility of monitoring pollution and the state of the seas, which is essential for the fight against global warming. All this information passes through the satellites which can be managed by the public and the private sector. The latter sector wants to go even further: for example, the possibility of exploiting celestial bodies such as asteroids to extract interesting materials has been thought of, but the exploitation of lunar ice has also been imagined, both to make astronauts drink to supply fuel to the next space missions that could go to the moon and fill up there, since the hydrogen and oxygen necessary for the engines can be obtained from the ice.
The challenge is to develop a business model that is both economically viable and environmentally friendly.
In conclusion, what advice would you give to young people who wish to approach the fascinating world of Astrophysics?
I would recommend studying a lot and putting a lot of passion and determination into it because astrophysics never stops posing new challenges. We need young and original minds to change paradigms and try to solve the big problems we still have before us. Consider that normal matter, the one with which we, the Earth, the planets and the stars are made is less than 5% of the total universe... the rest is made up of dark matter and energy! Well, we still have very dark and confused ideas, so we wait for the young talents to look for new answers!